Monday, October 20, 1997
Guests:  FBI Special Agent Gary Stremcha and Sheriff 
Charles Lamar
 
This was an extraordinary meeting in the Oxford Town Hall.  
A formal public meeting regarding the death of Ed Pierce..  
FBI Special Agent Gary Stremcha was present to fill us in on 
the events leading to the death of  Ed Pierce.  Sheriff Charles 
Lamar joined the meeting to present his point of view.  
Overall this was a high tension evening in which the group 
learned some important relevant facts and perhaps more so, 
gained insight into the Sheriff's perspective on the cases.
 
Opening Remarks:
 
FBI Special Agent Gary Stremcha:
 
Good evening.  As you all know I'm here to speak on the 
recent developments in the Pierce chase.  I was sent into the 
Las Vegas area late last Thursday night to check on a solid 
tip that we received on the Tip Line in Oxford.  We then 
received a call from Ms. Vicky Symons wanting to turn 
herself in last Friday at 3:26 p.m.  She called from a 
neighbors trailer from Shady Acres Trailer Park, and I 
responded with reinforcements and we arrested Ms. Symons.  
When we raided the Jepson's trailer, we did not, however, 
find Pierce there with Ms. Symons.  She said that he had 
gone to the Strip to go do some gambling.  I followed this 
lead and went out to the Strip in my unmarked vehicle.  At 
3:54 on Friday, I spotted a man matching Pierce's description 
walking the strip heading northbound on the sidewalk, facing 
southbound traffic in front of the Stardust Casino.  I drove 
past Pierce and got a better look at him, and then turned my 
lights on.  Pierce ran and headed next door to CircusCircus.  
Pierce then enters the Horseshoe Casino and sets off the 
alarms as I am pursuing him.  He is then pursued from the 
inside by the security personnel of the casino, Pierce turns, 
opens fire and heads out the door.  At this time, I had reached 
the casino with the Las Vegas SWAT team and the Nevada 
State Police.  Pierce turns back around and heads back into 
the casino taking with him two hostages.  A Ms. Barbara 
Ragsdale and one Mr. Bill Madsen.  From that point, Pierce 
forces Madsen to take the elevator in the lobby up to the roof.  
Our teams assemble out front with help from the Las Vegas 
Fire Dept. as we try to bargain to bring Pierce down and get 
the hostages out safely.  Pierce opens fire.  We have the 
casino evacuated.  Pierce uses Madsen as a shield and a 
bargaining tool.  He threatened to throw Madsen over the side 
of the building if we didn't back off.  Pierce continues firing.
 
We open fire and Madsen was killed in the crossfire.  Pierce 
threw Madsen's body over the side which landed on one of 
the squad cars.  At this time we commandeered another 
elevator in the building at the same time we began dropping 
tear gas from the helicopters above.  Pierce began to throw 
the tear gas back over the side, and then must have realized 
what our plans were because he threw some of the tear gas 
down the elevator shoot that our team was coming up.  We 
were forced to evacuate that plan and look for an alternate 
route.  Pierce at this time starts using Ms. Ragsdale as a 
bargaining tool and also begins to threaten to shoot her or 
throw her over the side of the building.  We assemble a team 
with a sniper to find an alternate route up to the roof.  We 
found an alternate route used by the maintenance crew.  A 
maintenance elevator that only goes to the top floor and then 
a set of stairs that lead to the roof hidden from view by the air 
conditioners on the top of the building.
 
Lieutenant Paul Dickerson, our sniper, reached the roof with 
members of our team, waited for the signal, and then took out 
Pierce with a shot to the back of his head.  At that point 
Pierce had been close to the edge still opening fire and 
holding Ms. Ragsdale, because of the blast to his head, 
Pierce's body slumped forward sending Ms. Ragsdale down.  
That is when our team went to check Pierce's body and 
concluded he was in fact dead.
 
I can take questions now.
 
Q:  Do you think Pierce initiated the shoot-out intentionally?
A:  I think he was scared, and it was a last resort.  But he was 
carrying an armload of weaponry.
 
At this point Sheriff Charles Lamar joined the meeting.
 
Opening Remarks, Sheriff Charles Lamar:
 
Elizabeth Jones, Information Officer asked the Sheriff what 
information he might have for the group.  His response 
follows:
 
Well, my ex and I are upset that Macy is still missing, of 
course.  I am relieved that none of our own officers are 
injured, but I wish I could say the came for the Las Vegas 
officers.  And, of course, we did lose a hostage, with another 
one injured.
 
I would be happy to answer any questions now.
 
Question & Answer session with Sheriff Lamar and Agent 
Stremcha.  Note that we have retained comments from the 
audience and show the detailed debate that occurred between 
Agent Stremcha and the Sheriff:
 
Q = Question
C = Comment
EJ   = Elizabeth Jones
AGENT = Agent Stremcha
SHERIFF = Sheriff Lamar
 
Q:  Is Vicky cooperating and does she know anything about 
Macy?  If no, who was she talking about in her phone call?
Sheriff:  Vicky is cooperating but said she knows nothing 
about Macy.
 
Q:  Any idea why Ed thought he could go into a casino fully 
loaded up with weapons?
SHERIFF:  Well, there are no machines to detect them in a 
casino from what I've been told.  They didn't know he was 
armed when he ran in there.  Well, of course, I was not in Las 
Vegas and neither was the author of the article.  You know 
the press.
AGENT:  He did set off metal detectors.  Most of the casinos 
in Vegas do have metal detectors.  I'm not really  sure why 
Pierce would go into the casinos carrying all of those 
weapons.  Of course he may not have been originally 
planning on going into the casino at all.  I think he got scared 
when I spotted him.
SHERIFF:  Humph, well, I guess I was misinformed then.
 
Q:  Did Vicky have anything to add about Macy's 
whereabouts?
AGENT:  No.  Ms. Symons did not add anything about 
Macy's whereabouts but we just arrested her.  We didn't 
question her at that time.
SHERIFF:  I'd like to know if you're bringing her back here 
so that I can question her.
AGENT:  It was my understanding that she is being 
questioned, and that interview will be posted later this 
evening or tomorrow morning.
SHERIFF:  Well, if she is returned here, I'm sure we will find 
out if she knows anything about the disappearance of my 
only child.
AGENT:  Sir, we are questioning her and we will let you 
know any developments as soon as we can.
SHERIFF:  Thank you, sir.
 
Q:  Why did Vicky turn herself in?
AGENT:  She said she was tired of running and that Ed was 
beginning to tire of her.
 
Q:  Sheriff Lamar, have you scheduled a lie detector test for 
yourself, if no, why not?
SHERIFF:  No, of course not.  I am the Sheriff.  There is no 
reason for me to take one.
AGENT:  Sir, if you want to clear your name as your ex wife 
did, I would assume you'd want to take that polygraph as 
soon as you possibly could.  Don't you want to clear your 
name?
SHERIFF:  No one would reasonably expect that I would 
kidnap my own daughter.
C:  Your wife took one.
SHERIFF:  My wife was with her and is not a law 
enforcement officer.
AGENT:  Sir, I am a law enforcement agent myself, and if 
my daughter were missing and people were possibly going to 
accuse me I know that I personally would want to clear my 
name any way possible.
SHERIFF:  There is absolutely no reason for me to take one 
according the City Manager.  My name has not been 
besmirched, sir.  It does not need to be cleared.  I have done 
nothing wrong.
AGENT:  I'm sorry sir, but if your wife was willing to, I don't 
understand why you wouldn't.  Especially if you have nothing 
to hide.
SHERIFF:  As I said, my wife is not an official of this 
county.
 
Q:  Why not take it just to show your voters what a good guy 
you are?
SHERIFF:  There is no reason to suspect that my daughters 
disappearance has anything to do with my office.
AGENT:  Sir, no one said that it did.  I just simply cannot 
understand why you would say you would take the test and 
then blatantly put it off...especially if you have nothing to 
hide.
SHERIFF:  Its time to focus on the criminals, not the 
innocent parties.  If it comes down to it, I don't have to take 
any test.  And I herewith refuse  Lie detectors are never 
reliable.  That's why they are not admissible in court.  There 
is no reason to suspect the Sheriff of the county!
 
A few comments at this point:
C:  He has used the herewith word...means he's sought legal 
counsel already.
C:  Your protest makes you look suspicious.
 
Q:  Was the Van located?
AGENT:  I don't have the information on that, yet.  I'll have 
to get back to you on it.
SHERIFF:  I don't know anything about where the van is.
 
Q:  Why is Vicky being arrested...because Ed stole the van 
and she was with him?
SHERIFF:  Vicky aided in the escape from Oxford.  We 
intend to charge her with aiding and abetting a fugitive.  She 
is also wanted for questioning in the disappearance of my 
daughter.  There may also be some charges in Texas, but she 
will be coming here first.
 
Q:  Why did you turn your lights on in your unmarked car?  
Did you think he would just stop?
AGENT:  It's procedure.  I was hoping that he would give up 
peacefully.  I was wrong.
 
Q:  Sheriff, have you been questioned extensively yet?
SHERIFF:  NO, and I don't intend to be questioned.  There is 
no reason to suspect that I have done anything wrong.
C:  The sheriff is getting mighty defensive.
SHERIFF:  I am not hostile, I am the Sheriff.
 
AGENT:  <shaking his head> Sheriff, don't you want to clear 
your name?  If you have done nothing wrong, then you have 
nothing to hide.
SHERIFF:  I told you all, my name does not need clearing.  
Of course, I have nothing to hide and I resent your 
implications.  Agent, you are a guest in my department and I 
expect your cooperation.
AGENT:  Sir, I am not implicating that you had anything to 
do with your daughter's disappearance.  I am simply 
wondering why you are not cooperating in the search for you 
own daughter, Sheriff.
SHERIFF:  There is no reason to suspect Macy has been 
taken over state lines anymore and the case is now under my 
jurisdiction.  I believe I have cooperated in the search I have 
been out 24-7 searching for her and investigating this matter.
C:  But isn't there a chance you might know something that 
would be of help?
 
Q:  Did Vicky help Ed and Tony out of the police car when 
they escaped?
AGENT:  We won't know that until Ms. Symons has been 
totally questioned.
 
Q:  Perhaps you're too close to this case, Sheriff .  Maybe it 
would be better if Vicky were questioned by a more "neutral" 
party.  When you called in the FBI, didn't you relinquished 
jurisdiction?
SHERIFF:  Vicky will be questioned by the appropriate 
people under my jurisdiction.  I have never relinquished 
anything, Ma'am.  The FBI has been ASSISTING us until 
jurisdiction was established by evidence she has been 
removed from the sate.
AGENT:  Well, that's really a question for Agent Hillman.  
She is handling the FBI involvement on the disappearance of 
Macy Lamar, however the FBI's involvement in finding 
Pierce was completely under our jurisdiction.  If Ms. Symons 
leads us to believe that she knows Macy's whereabouts and 
she is out of Mississippi's borders it falls in our jurisdiction.  
Does that answer your question?
 
Q:  Sheriff, your refusal to take the polygraph is not being 
taken well.  It DOES look SUSPICIOUS to many!  You may 
not be Sheriff much longer.  What would the media say about 
that?
SHERIFF:  Media?  This is a local matter, Mr. Peters, not a 
matter for outside media to deal with.  When and IF I am ever 
named as a suspect, I will deal with any suspicions.  Of 
course, I am NOT a suspect.
 
Q:  If you are running the investigation, you aren't going to 
name yourself as a suspect, will you?
SHERIFF:  Now, now, everyone, I think we should end this 
conference for the evening.
 
EJ:  Sir, we do have more questions.
SHERIFF:  All right but I have to go soon.
 
Q:  Sheriff, if your refusal arouses suspicion that you may be 
involved, resources will be devoted to investigating you that 
could go to pursuing other theories...Doesn't that bother you?
SHERIFF:  No one needs to investigate me and ALL 
resources should be directed in other directions to find the 
perpetrators.
 
Q:  Sheriff, I know you are upset about Macy, but we need 
more inf. to help find her. Who were you having an affair 
with?
SHERIFF:  An affair...how...I will not discuss that matter.  It 
is a closed matter.  Not up for your discussions.  I have a 
private life.
 
Q:  Wouldn't it be in the best interest of the investigation if 
you withdrew yourself from this case?
SHERIFF:  I will not withdraw.  I am the Sheriff.
AGENT:  I would be inclined to agree, Sheriff.
SHERIFF:  I will not withdraw.  I am the Sheriff of this 
county.  	I was elected and will remain on any investigation in 
my purview until I am removed..er reelected.
AGENT:  Sheriff, you are too personally involved with this 
case.
SHERIFF:  Of course I am personally involved.  That is a ...  
never mind.
AGENT:  Sir, I am inclined to agree that because you are so 
personally involved in this case that it is going to affect your 
performance and handling in it.  Aren't you concerned about 
getting your daughter back?
SHERIFF:  Agent Stremcha, I believe this is not an 
appropriate discussion to be conducting in public.
C:  Where should it be conducted?
SHERIFF:  Your questions border on rudeness, Sir.
 
Q:  Sheriff, the person in your private life could have 
something to do with the disappearance of your daughter.
SHERIFF:  You have no evidence to substantiate that claim.  
Whether or not there is anyone in my life is no ones business 
but mine.
C:  Macy made it her business.  We need all the evidence we 
can get.  There is very little so far.
 
SHERIFF:  I will not be grilled like a common thief.
AGENT:  I mean no disrespect, Sir, but you are being asked 
honest questions and I am inclined to agree with many of the 
people here.
SHERIFF:  This is a matter we should discuss in my office, 
SIR.
SHERIFF:  These people have no right to question me either.
AGENT:  Sir, I cannot believe that you came here with the 
idea that you would not be questioned on this.
SHERIFF:  This is a public discussion Sir, your questions are 
in the form of an interrogation. I will not be interrogated in 
public like this.  Hardly.
 
Q:  Sheriff, on entering PUBLIC office, you gave up your 
private life.  Is it then, that you are trying to tell us that due 
process of law does not extend to you, and that no one has the 
right or ability to question you because you are "the Sheriff?"   
Does that put you above the law?
SHERIFF:  Everyone has a private life, elected officials, too.  
It is no one's business who I might or might not have dinner 
with and I resent the implications all of you are making.  I 
think this is a political ploy on the part of Mazza.  I am not 
above the law.  I have said repeatedly that when and IF I am 
named as a suspect I will deal with questions in the 
appropriate manner.
 
Q:  Sir, you're involved in the MIDDLE of this case!  Don't 
you think that involves you?
C:  <Mazza doesn't have to do anything, you're doing it to 
yourself>  I think that you should stop worrying about 
yourself and think about getting your daughter back!
AGENT:  Sir, your child is missing.  In every missing 
persons case the family of the missing person is questioned.  I 
cannot understand why you will not cooperate.
SHERIFF:  I AM cooperating.  I will not however resort to 
the junk science of a lie detector.  My daughter is my concern 
at this point not these silly political questions.  NOT when the 
parent is a law enforcement officer.
 
AGENT:  Sir, even law enforcement agents are questioned in 
cases where a member of his/her family is missing.
Q:  It is your daughter that was kidnapped, if a detective in 
your department failed to question the parents in a similar 
case, wouldn't that be overlooking serious leads?
SHERIFF:  There is no evidence pointing to me.
AGENT:  Lie detector tests are 98 % effective.  There is very 
little margin for error.
SHERIFF:  Then why aren't they admissible in court, Agent?
 
Q:  Have you ever been accused of mistreating your 
daughter? I think that this may have some real bearing on the 
case, maybe why she just up and disappeared.
SHERIFF:  Of course NOT.  What a horrible accusation.  
Who do you represent?
C:  It wasn't an accusation, sir, it was a question.
SHERIFF:  Are you perhaps in the employ of MAZZA???
C:  I REPRESENT THE PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT 
MACY.
 
EJ:  Thank you Gentlemen, you have certainly given us much 
to think about.  At this time, I am going to give each of our 
guests a last opportunity to make a comment.  Agent 
Stremcha, will you go first please?
 
AGENT:  I'd like to thank all of you for helping us to find 
Pierce.  It was long and grueling and unfortunately, it ended 
in a shoot out.  I would like to remind all of you that this has 
been very strenuous and that the Sheriff has been under much 
stress from running for office, his daughter's disappearance, 
and apprehending Pierce.  Please keep that in mind.  Again, 
thank you all for your help and involvement in helping up to 
find Pierce.  Have a good evening everyone. And good night 
everyone, it has been a pleasure working with you.
 
EJ:  Thank you, Sir.  Sheriff Lamar, your final thoughts?
 
SHERIFF:  I would like to ask each of you to volunteer in the 
search effort for my daughter.  And to turn out for Election 
Day, of course.  Our efforts will be rewarded I am sure Macy 
will be returned to us in good health.  Thank you all for 
coming.  Good night, EJ, Agent Stremcha.
 
EJ:  Thank you very much sir, good night we do wish you the 
speedy and safe return of Macy.
 
A few of the typical comments and sentiments following this 
evening's discussion.
 
C:  And be sure to vote for the candidate who has NO FAITH 
in investigations.
C:  Is he kidding about Election Day?
C:  Wants us to vote for him.  I'd be more concerned about 
my daughter than an election.
C:  I definitely think the Sheriff needs to step down and let 
someone else handle this case.
C:  He is so defensive.  I don't understand the big deal about 
the lie detector test.
C:  The more he stonewalls, the more suspicious I become!
C:  His "friend" is somehow involved.
C:  I think he owed someone some money and they have 
Macy.
C:  There is something under the surface here.