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Monday, November 24, 1997 Guest: Deputy Morgan Phillips   Opening Remarks:   Hi everyone. I just want to let you all know, that if I seem a little groggy or out of it, I'm real sorry. It's been an interesting last couple of days for me. Like waking up from a really weird dream or something. I'm slowly remembering things from the accident, but really bits a pieces at a time. Mostly images, but a few things have come back really crisp. There was that dummy that was dropped in front of the van. <shaking head tiredly> Real weird, but I know that it wasn't a person. I remember looking up and wondering' why anyone would throw a dummy in front of the van like that. But that's when we swerved, and then, I just don't remember much after that. Anyway, I can take some questions, but I don't really know how much of a help I can be. Things are still a little foggy.   Question and Answer Session:   Q: How fast were you going before you had the crash? A: The speed limit...maybe five over...probably 30 or 35 mph. I can't really say that I remember, but I assume we were doing the limit.   Q: Did you get a good look at the other man on the bridge or can you describe him to us? A: Funny thing about that. I know I saw someone up there, but I can't even really remember anything but an outline. It's really bits and pieces of pictures that I can't put together.   Q: After being in a coma for so long, how can you be so sure about what you saw? A: That's a good point, but some of what is coming back is so clear I don't doubt it at all. Other things are like in a haze, you know? It's really fuzzy, but I get some solid images and some pieces that don't seem to make sense. But, it's slowly coming back.   Q: Was the dummy wearing any clothes or had any human looking features on him? A: Well, when I first looked up, I thought it was a person, but as it fell closer, I could tell that it wasn't. But at first, we thought it was a body or something. But I could tell it wasn't. It was definitely a dummy of some sort...like a scarecrow or mannequin.   Q: Why wasn't the dummy found at the scene of the accident? A: I don't know. I...huh, no idea where it could've went... I know I saw it, because that's why we swerved. Thing was dropped or fell...somebody was on the bridge...<shaking his head> ...I don't know why they didn't find it. Maybe someone took it? I don't...I just don't really know to be honest.   Q: Were you and Schiff reluctant to do the transport without proper backup, or was this "normal" procedure? A: It was pretty normal. At least it didn't seem out of the ordinary...just a transport... Things were even going pretty well, the passengers weren't causing any disturbance just sitting in the back quiet. And so there really wasn't much to be concerned about...   Q: Can you give us a general description of the person on the bridge? A: I'm sorry, I only remember seeing a figure of someone on the bridge. I just remember seeing someone...like a flash almost at the corner of your eye.   Q: How high was the bridge from the rest of the road? A: Hmm...about 20 feet? Big enough for a large truck to go under, I'd say.   Q: If you close your eyes, can you "see" the person, perhaps-- please look closely at the sex of the person. Can you estimate height, weight, and sex now? A: I'll tell you, I remember riding along on that stretch, looking around...kinda day dreaming...<searching mind> I was thinking about the game. Vernon says, "look out!" I look up...I see a figure...not real large, but an outline, like the sun is all around it or at least that's how I'm seeing it in my memory. I look up. someone has dropped, pushed...a dummy...looked like a person at first, but as I looked more at it, no, it was definitely a dummy... I try to make out the person on the bridge...<closing eyes> <sighing in frustration> Just an outline, not even enough for me to give an description on.... No, I'm trying, but I can't see the face. I wish I could...I just don't see it. Maybe it'll come back to me, but I really, just don't see them...you know...that's still fuzzy...wires aren't crossing right or something. I'm sorry. I hate not being able to help you all on this.   Q: Could there have been more than one person? A: I don't think so...I only remember one outline...not two...but things are kind of unclear to me.   Q: What bits and pieces of memory that are coming to you about that day don't make sense? A: Well, it's not so much that they don't make sense...it's just the sequence is kind of weird. It's like getting a radio station but through a bunch of static. Just enough to get some of the words...but not enough to make out the whole song. What I remember really clear...comes through and makes sense...like the dummy...but at the same time...I can't imagine why anyone would throw a dummy at the van like that. I see gradual pictures in my mind. Like bits and fragments. Nothing totally clear...like that outline...I know...er...think I saw someone up there, but I can't really tell you anything about what they look like. It's like seeing an outline in the sun almost, I just can't explain. I can try to help with some other questions.   Q: Were you always lacking backup during the transports, or was this an exception due to the game? (also, was there any reason for the urgency of the transport?) A: No, we didn't usually lack backup, but there really wasn't any need for more than we had. The game made the transport easier to do because there would be less people on the roads during the game. Urgency, in the transport? Not that I recall. I mean, it seemed pretty routine.   Q: Just out of curiosity, can you remember the time you were in a coma? Sometimes people can remember that. A: Not really. When I came out of it, I didn't remember much. Sort of dreamlike, but at the same time, I didn't feel like much time had passed. Sometimes I think I could hear people in the room with me, but I'm not sure.   Q: Deputy, how well did you know Sheriff Lamar? Would you possibly know who his poker buddies were? A: Lamar? He was a good guy. Worked with him for a while. Great cop. Shame what happened to him. I feel awful for his family. Poker buddies, though...no, I just knew that he played every once in a while. Didn't know with who though.   Q: There was a dummy found in a dumpster, a "frat prank"...could you have fellow officers bring it by to see if you can ID it? A: Hmm, you'd have to ask Nelson to bring it in, but I might be able to ID it. Of course, I don't know if I'll know it from any other dummy, but I can try I guess.   Q: Deputy, were you working on any cases prior to the transport? A: Just the usual stuff. They were wrapping up the Knight case, so I was working thefts and such in the area. Nothing real serious, though. Petty theft, some bicycles stolen on campus. Pretty standard stuff.   Q: Do you know if Sheldon was in severe need (or want) of money? A: Not that I was aware of, no.   Q: Have you thought about undergoing hypnosis to try to remember that day a little more clearly? A: I hadn't really thought of it until y'all suggested it. I've just been really concentrating on trying to get out of the hospital. Although, I've spent a considerable amount of time trying to remember what all happened.   Q: Do you know of or know anything about Dick Dale, the gambler? A: No, I can't say that I do.   Q: Do you recall if any of your fellow officers were "out of town" that weekend? A: Well, I know that a bunch were at the game, a guy on the force was out of town with his family fishing, I think, other than that, I can't remember anyone being out of town.   Q: Do you know if Ed or Tony had any accomplices or allies? A: Accomplices? No...not that I know of...we were just transporting the guys though...they weren't any hassle...just kinda quiet. I only wish I could've been more help. This is kind of frustrating for me. Thank you all.   Tuesday, November 25, 1997 Guest: Sheriff Taylor Sheldon, from Memphis, TN   Opening Remarks:   Good evening. Well, I just got here and haven't been outside, hard to get a phone, etc. So far I met with the FBI. I think I�m ready to answer questions.   Question and Answer Session:   Q: Have you gotten any leads in Memphis? A: Well, the FBI tends not to share too much with us locals, you know, but they are investigating the sighting of Macy. They say they don't have much to divulge yet, but I am pressing them as hard as I can. There is something odd about the rental of the apartment but they won't tell me what it is. It is been treated as very important, though. They have interviewed the Cousins woman extensively, I believe. It is difficult to come into a city in another state and do my own investigation. But I am attempting to connect with the local PD as well as the FBI.   Q: Who owns the apartment complex and who invited you to Memphis if they were not going to share information? A: They have not informed me as to the owner. I invited myself as Sheriff Lamar was a friend and I am as concerned as almost anyone about Macy. She is a fine girl. The FBI has promised a more detailed report by early next week, I am hoping for Monday. A lot of the labs and stuff are closed for the holiday.   Q: Do you know if fingerprints were taken in the apartment complex or a search warrant obtained? A: I know the place was dusted, but I don't have the results. There are more warrants pending. We have to be so specific these days, you know about what we are searching for.   Q: Does the woman who "saw" Macy wear glasses? Was she wearing them at the time if so? A: In the picture I saw, she was wearing glasses. I haven't interviewed her, so I don't know if she was wearing them, but usually if a woman wears them in a photograph, they wear them all the time.   Q: When will we be given the names of the others arrested in the gambling raid and who owns the gambling dens? A: I believe we are releasing more information on that little raid. It doesn't seem too important in view of the other things we have going on, though. I know Chuck always said the rumors of gambling were overblown.   Q: Who's the lead Memphis investigator on this case? Have you met him or her yet? A: Actually, I have talked to Hillman mostly.   Q: Did the witness get a look at the two men with Macy? If so, give us a description. A: Well, as I said, I haven't talked directly with her so I don't know a lot more than was in the original report, but I believe she isn't real clear on them as she was concentrating on the girl and trying to make sure it is her. The FBI has taken her descriptions out on the wire, though. But it is my understanding that they are not real comprehensive. Sorry I don't have new information on that for you.   Q: Did she say they were old, young, fat skinny, anything? A: All I know about is what she said in the original report which was the shirt thing and, oh, yeah, they were mid 30's and body guard or body builder types. The woman said that one of them might have been a weight lifter, I think.   Q: Perhaps one thing to add to your agenda while there is a stop by the courthouse to see who owns the apartment building? A: Yes, ma�am, probably tomorrow. FBI meetings all afternoon.   Q: Does anyone keep a record somewhere of outstanding gambling debts? A: Well, since gambling is illegal, it wouldn�t be a police agency. Maybe the bookie or parlor owner. We didn't find any in the raid, I know that.   Q: Did Pierce and Phelps have any accomplices or allies? Living or dead? A: The only one I know of would be Vickie. There were some acquaintances, but no one that we could link to any of the crimes.   Q: Did the witness seem to think Macy went with them willingly? A: Well, there was no obvious struggle and she was not tied up or restrained. And the men went to the car before her and waited for her rather than using obvious force. The woman did say she seemed to be glad to be outside, though.   Q: From the description of incident it would seem she was staging her fall hoping to attract attention. A: I think we won't know that until we catch up to them. For one thing, even after she fell, she did not try to run even though the men were not that near to her. It is possible however that she was trying to attract the notice of people in the complex   Q: Is it possible that the woman was not wearing her glasses at the time and mistook some other girl for Macy? A: Yes, as I said, I am only assuming from the photo that I saw that the woman wears her glasses all the time. I have no other corroborating evidence either way.   Q: The kidnappers have had time to brainwash Macy like the Patty Hearst case or maybe drugged her. A: Yes, we have considered that very carefully and it is very possible among other theories that she is with them willingly although I myself don't think Macy is that kind of girl. I don't think that she would worry her mother like this (and her father if she doesn't know of his death).   Q: Can we be sure this is a credible witness? A: Well, of course, that is always a concern. There are many people who would like that reward and there are people who want the publicity and the woman may prove to be unreliable, but, at this point, he FBI is taking her very seriously. This woman has positively identified Macy from a photograph that the FBI showed her. To my knowledge, she has never made a false report in the past.   Q: You said you have had some false confessions on the case. Can you name some? A: No, it would violate their rights to make their names public and it would only serve to encourage them to do it more often. It is the attention that they crave. Usually, they are well known in their areas and we have a file of names that we check automatically when someone comes forward with information.   Q: Do you happen to know if Cousins is near-sighted or far- sighted? A: From her age and the appearance of her glasses, they looked like bifocals to me.   Q: Has any more evidence turned up at home on Sheriff Lamar's murder? A: No new evidence, but the crime scene reconstruction has lead us to some conclusions. We believe that there may have been another car, but we are not sure if it was someone totally uninvolved with the Sheriff and may have been an innocent passer by. Well, I did not mean innocent. The passerby may have been a drunk driver who didn't stop for fear of discovery or someone not wanting to be found in the area at the time for totally unrelated reasons to Chuck's death.   Q: Have y�all gotten a search warrant to search the Dickerson project? A: No, as yet, we do not have probable cause to search it.   Q: What do you have planned for tomorrow? A: Well, I am meeting with the chief of the local PD and I am having lunch with Agent Hillman if possible. And, as someone here suggested, I may pay a visit to the courthouse if I don't get the information on the complex owner from Hillman. However, I am a guest in this city and I have to watch that I don't step on any toes. We have maintained good relations with Memphis in other cases. They have been very helpful.   Q: Who else is on this case besides you? How many others from your Department? A: Well, depends on if you mean formally or on their own time. Now that Chuck is dead, many of the Deputies feel a responsibility to handle this last case for him. We are all trying as hard as we can to find Macy Lamar and return her to Caroline as soon as possible. Officially we have eight people full time on the case right now, but many unofficial hours are being worked.   Q: Any conclusions on coroner�s autopsy? A: Not yet.   Q: How was your fishing trip the weekend Pierce and Phelps escaped? A: Cut short. I was called back to help with the investigation and I had thrown back the ones I had already caught.   Q: What's Aimee up to? A: Aimee Harberson? don't know. Her interviews are complete as far as I know. We still have reservations about her and her friend is coming in on Friday because her story may have some inaccurate details now that we have viewed the tape. Aimee would like to leave the area, but we have "requested" that she remain until we are sure we have no more questions. My personal opinion is that she doesn't mind as they are still requesting interviews from her (the media, that is).   Finally, I would urge all of you to let us know what you think. Terry reads all the messages and several of your ideas have proved to be very accurate. Good night, everyone.   Wednesday, November 26, 1997 Guest: Donald Wallace, Director, Oxford Green   This session was a presentation made of late breaking information found by the environmental group, Oxford Green. The photographs used in Donald Wallace�s presentation will be available on Monday, December 1, 1997 on Anderson & Armstrong�s web page. See the December 1, 1997 update for the link.   Introductory comments from Elizabeth Jones, Information Officer:   Our guest has some concerns for his safety in presenting this information. We are coming to you tonight from an undisclosed location, and plan to ensure Don's safety. At this time, I would like to present Donald Wallace, Director of Oxford Green. Thank you for being here tonight, Don. We appreciate the risk you are taking and your sharing your findings with us. I'll turn the microphone over to you now. Let me know when you are ready for questions.   Donald Wallace, Director of Oxford Green, presentation:   Thank you EJ and thank you ladies and gentlemen. We've stumbled onto some significant news pertaining to the Dickerson property. I'd like to go over what we've found and how we've found it. You may be aware of the delays surrounding the Environmental Impact Statement pertaining to the proposed development of the property. At Oxford Green we've been following this case for months and pushed the EIS from the start. We've been very suspicious of the long delays in issuing the EIS and decided to investigate.   On November 1, three Oxford Green members including myself inspected the Dickerson property with unexpected results. We took some pictures of our findings and we'd like to share them with you with the help of what they call here a 'clicker.'   This is the first photo we took when we arrived at the property. We approached the property and were surprised by the heavy truck imprints shown here. We were told that no development was occurring here but this obviously is a recently heavily trafficked site. This is the entrance of the Dickerson property showing heavy truck imprints.   Second photo: Here, we found quite a bit of junk like this at first and we assumed that trucks were hauling in refuse, taking advantage of the abandoned site. We had known that this location was being used as an unofficial dumping place for abandoned cars and trash. We found that and more.   Third photo: At the side of a hill beyond the trash dump we found this large can, rusted out. The picture doesn't show it well, but the soil was very discolored with rust and blue hues. Note how the flora is particularly sickly here We decided to investigate further beyond the hill.   Fourth photo: On the other side we found picture #4. Dozens of these rusted out drums were thrown haphazardly around the property - this particular drum was only covered by a plastic tarp material. Some of our pictures didn't come out, which showed the number of these barrels.   Fifth photo: While most of the drums are unmarked, this particular drum was marked C/S as you can see.   Sixth Photo: We couldn�t guess what this substance was. Fortunately, Sam (Underwood) accompanied us. Sam often takes soil and water samples for the nearby Save Our Streams chapter. He had plastic containers and gloves in his RV which allowed us to take samples of this noxious gunk.   The sign was a posted no trespassing sign. Now, quite a few of these drums were clearly leaking their contents into the soil. Erosion and rain patterns clearly indicated severe runoff of whatever this stuff was into the watershed.   The samples were taken to the University of Mississippi labs for analysis. We got the results of the analysis back this Monday (24th). Those results prompted my own concerns for my safety here tonight. What we found was a truly noxious compound of three deadly toxins. The analysis showed clearly that the drums contain a mixture of the germicide hexachlorophene (8%) 2,4,5,T (14%) a powerful herbicide and the worst news of all, 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-P- Dioxin 2,3,7,8-TCDD (23%) otherwise known simply as 'dioxin.'   Dioxin is called by most authorities the most deadly artificial chemical known. Now what is significant about this are two things. First, we have a major environmental crisis here in Oxford and second this waste was not put here by a small operation. The herbicide and germicide found are only manufactured by large chemical companies and dioxin is only produced by manufacturing processes of these chemicals. This is not a case of some good ole local boys dumping some trash. A BIG player put this junk here and deliberately. You don't put the most dangerous substance on Earth someplace without full well knowing you did it.   What also makes me nervous is that I spoke to Sheriff Lamar about this. I spoke to him on election day and inquired about the status of the EIS. I underscored the importance of getting it finished by telling him what we found. I had no idea how serious the contents were then, however, so I told him he'd get the results as soon as we did. Of course that didn't work out. He did say he would check into after the election.   After getting the results I called Sheriff Sheldon's office yesterday but apparently he was out of the office and I haven't been able to talk to him. I believe that Sheriff Lamar's death could very well be connected to this. Sheriff Lamar was a man of his word. If he said he would look into something, I believed him. Perhaps he looked too closely.   There is no case of toxic waste dumping in the country where the owner of the dump didn't know full well what was being dumped. I think Reed Chambeau is in this up to his ears. We do know some things about Chambeau now. One of his properties in Emelle Alabama. 120 families were evacuated by the EPA when it was discovered that seepage from the nearby hazardous waste dump contaminated the tenants' water supply.   We also found out that Chambeau's property in New Orleans got razed by a mysterious fire in '94 that killed three people. One of those people was James Shippenham, Chambeau's former business partner. Shippenham's widow is currently suing Chambeau for her husband's share of the business, which apparently fell to Chambeau by a business arrangement made shortly before the fire. I believe the name C/S and Chambeau and Shippenham's names may be more than coincidence.   What has me frankly scared is that this can't be just Chambeau. He does not have the assets or the clout that is behind a major chemical operation. There is a much larger picture here with bigger fish in the background. To pull this off, local politicians need to have been bought off. The delays in submitting the environmental impact statement is much clearer as well. This whole thing stinks literally and figuratively, with lots of people involved. Oxford Green is convinced we have a conspiracy.   We've called in Anderson and Armstrong Agency to help nail this for us. Meanwhile, I don't mind telling you I'm real nervous. The next step is for A&A to track the business connections here... They're on the trail of who this "C/S" is and whether they're connected with Chambeau directly. This is a battle we can't afford to lose, and I'm afraid Sheriff Lamar may well have been an early casualty.   At this point I'd like to take any questions you might have.   Question and Answer Session:   Q: Why haven't you called in the Environmental Protection Agency? A: We don't know who to trust at this point. Remember, we just got the results back Monday. I for one am reeling a little.   Q: I had a question: Is it possible that the Conspiracy is on a nationwide level? A: Yes it is. I'm not aware of any chemical operations close to Oxford that could produce this stuff.   Comment: If that's the case, then we are in big trouble. This has turned from a kidnapping to a Conspiracy.   Q: Can you not trace the barrels from the number located on them? Somewhere there is a pro number that will match those barrels. A: We didn't find any legible numbers. Some of the drums are in very poor condition. All we have is the C/S identifier and we're working on that.   Q: How could Gilbert be unaware of the barrels at the site? A: The topography of the property makes it possible to miss these barrels. Where kids are known to party there, they wouldn't see them at all. I'm not sure what Gilbert knows and doesn't know, however.   Comment: Maybe Gilbert got scared and wanted it all to stop before someone else got hurt.   Q: Please, Don, keep a journal for us? A: Are you suggesting I might not be around to speak for myself? You can bet we are going to get this information out and wide open. Sorry about the typos tonight, gang, I'm a little nervous, make that big time nervous.