Interview: Orlando Lester

Orlando Lester, Will Mathis' servant, co-defendant, and witness for the State being first duly sworn, testified as follows in the Circuit Court of Lafayette County during a special December term in 1901.

Q: Do you know Will Mathis?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Did you know John A. Montgomery?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Is he living or dead?

A: Dead I suppose.

Q: Do you know?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Did you know Mr. Hugh Montgomery?

A: No sir I didn't know him.

Q: You have seen him have you?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Where?

A: At Mr. Mathis'.

Q: When?

A: On November the 16^th.

Q: Who came there with him?

A: Mr. John A. Montgomery.

Q: What time of day did they get there?

A: About an hour by sun.

Q: What were you doing there?

A: Helping Mr. Mathis kill a hog.

Q: Did you live with Mr. Mathis?

A: No sir.

Q: With whom did you live?

A: Mr. Owens.

Q: What did they come there for?

A: To arrest him I suppose.

Q: Mr. Mathis?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Did they arrest him?

A: I don't know whether they did or not.

Q: Did you hear them talk with Mr. Mathis with reference to the arrest?

A: I heard something said with reference to going to town.

Q: Did they go that evening?

A: No sir.

Q: Did they go at all?

A: No sir, I suppose not.

Q: You suppose not? Don't you know they didn't?

A: I know they didn't go that night.

Q: State to the jury in as clear a way as you can what happened after John A. Montgomery and Hugh Montgomery got to Will Mathis on the evening of November the 16^th 1901?

A: After they got there Mr. Mathis asked them to stay all night with him that night -- he said he didn't care to come to town that night but wanted them to wait until morning to give him a chance to make bond without having to go to jail.

Q: What did they say to that?

A: Mr. John said he didn't care he says "Hugh it is just with you Mr. Hugh said I don't know Will I had some business off somewhere I wanted to tend to -- (I don't know where it was he said) Mr. John said it is with you Hugh -- it don't make no difference with me -- the man has got his hog down here and it is in bad shape to leave tonight -- then Mr. Hugh said I don't care I will stay -- I can go tomorrow night on the train." Then Mr. Mathis went on helping me clean the hog -- after we got the hair off he hope to hang it up and he went in the house and made a fire and asked them in the house. He come out and told me about the time I got through cleaning the hog wanted me to off and get his gun --

Q: Where did he say he wanted you to go?

A: Down to Mr. Owens.

Q: Whit Owens?

A: Yes sir, I asked him what he was going to do with it and he told me after a while -- so he went back in the house and come back out there again and told me what he wanted with the gun.

Q: What did he say he wanted with it?

A: He said he wanted to kill them fellows there and then he told me to go and get George Masks gun and tell Mr. Owens to come and bring his gun.

Q: Did you get Mr. Owens gun?

A: No sir.

Q: Did you get any gun?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Whose?

A: George Masks.

Q: Where did you get it?

A: Out of the rack at his house.

Q: Did you ask for it?

A: No sir.

Q: Did you see him?

A: No sir.

Q: Was he at home?

A: No sir.

Q: Did you ask any member of his family for it?

A: No sir.

Q: When you got his gun where did you go?

A: Back by Mr. Owens and back to Mr. Mathis'.

Q: When you went to Mr. Owens what did you do there?

A: I didn't do anything, only stood there and talked with him a few minutes.

Q: Tell what was said.

A: He asked me if I got the gun and I told him I did and he told me to tell Mr. Mathis he couldn't go.

Q: Why?

A: He said if he would go away his wife would alarm the county.

Q: What did you do then?

A: I went and carried him the gun.

Q: Did you get anything at Mr. Owens?

A: No sir.

Q: Did you have any shells with the gun when you got it?

A: Yes sir.

Q: How many?

A: Two.

Q: How many did you carry to Will Mathis?

A: Two.

Q: How many more?

A: That's all.

Q: Did Mr. Owens see those shells?

A: No sir.

Q: He didn't see them?

A: No sir.

Q: Didn't you state yesterday in your own trial that he did see them?

A: I don't know whether I did or not.

Q: Did you show Mr. Owens the shells at all?

A: No sir.

Q: What did you do when you left there?

A: Went on and carried the gun.

Q: Carried who the gun?

A: Will Mathis.

Q: State to the jury what time you got back to Mr. Mathis house?

A: I don't know -- they was eating supper.

Q: Who?

A: Mr. Mathis and Bill Jackson and them two officers.

Q: So Bill Jackson was there when you got back?

A: Yes sir.

Q: After you got back and supper was over what was done?

A: Mr. Mathis and Mr. Jackson had a talk -- I went on and cut the hog up and I told him that I had done cut the hog up and asked him what must I do with it and he told me to bring it on in and spread it out on the table and I carried it in and spread it out and told him it was in there and he said alright then. Mr. Jackson got up then to go home I think and he come out to where I was at the pot and Mr. Mathis went back in the house and Mr. Jackson stood there and talked to me a while and then Mr. Mathis come back out there and told us he had done got them fellows off to bed now; him and Mr. Jackson went out to the lot and then I think and Mr. Mathis told me to go out there and get a jug of his he wanted to get some whiskey for Mr. Jackson and I got the jug and he filled up the bottles for Mr. Jackson.

Q: Then what occurred?

A: After he filled up the bottles he didn't have no stoppers and he told me to go and get some stoppers for Mr. Jacksons bottles and I went and got them.

Q: What kind of stoppers?

A: Cob stoppers.

Q: Where did you get them?

A: In the side room.

Q: Who were in that room?

A: John and Hugh Montgomery.

Q: You went in there with what?

A: A lamp.

Q: How many lamps were in that house?

A: Only one.

Q: Where did you go with that lamp?

A: In the room where the officers were.

Q: From where?

A: From the big room.

Q: The living room?

A: Yes sir.

Q: What occurred when you went in there with the lamp?

A: I went in and got the cobs and started out and Mr. Jackson and Mr. Mathis were at the door.

Q: What occurred?

A: They told them fellows they was after them -- they says "I come after you now -- give up -- raise your hands if you don't I am going to shoot you" and they didn't say nothing and didn't raise their hands and they shot them.

Q: Who shot them?

A: Mathis and Jackson.

Q: Will Mathis and William Jackson?

A: Yes sir.

Q: What did they shoot them with?

A: Breech loader and winchester.

Q: Where were those men when they were shot?

A: In the bed.

Q: Were they dressed or undressed?

A: Undressed.

Q: Did they kill them or not?

A: I suppose it killed them.

Q: Did you see them afterward?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Did they ever get out of the bed?

A: No sir.

Q: After the killing what was done?

A: Mr. Mathis told his wife to get up he wanted her to go to her fathers.

Q: Is Whit Owens her father?

A: Yes sir.

Q: What did she do?

A: She got up and fixed to go.

Q: Who went with her?

A: I and Mr. Mathis.

Q: Then what did you do?

A: Mr. Mathis and his wife went in the house when we got to Mr. Owens, I did not go in.

Q: Then what?

A: He come back out and told me he wanted me to go back up to his house with him and told me to go and get Mr. Owens shovel.

Q: Did you go get it?

A: Yes sir.

Q: What did you do with it?

A: I carried it back down and give it to Mr. Mathis and he carried it back up to his house.

Q: Who went with him?

A: I and Mr. Owens.

Q: When you all got up there what did you do?

A: I didn't do anything. Only went in the house him and I and Mr. Owens.

Q: Was the lamp lighted all that time?

A: No sir.

Q: How far was it from Will Mathis house to Whit Owens?

A: A mile and a half.

Q: How far from Whit Owens to George Masks?

A: About half a mile.

Q: How far out of the way was it in coming back from George Masks to go by Whit Owens in going to Mathis house.

A: It wasn't any out of the way hardly.

Q: When you got back up to the Mathis house did you see those men?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Where were they?

A: In the bed.

Q: What did you do then -- all of you?

A: I didn't do anything -- Mr. Mathis went and got their pistols out of the bed.

Q: How did he get them?

A: He went and turned the cover back and taken them out of the bed.

Q: Tell the jury the condition the bed was in.

A: I don't know I never noticed particular.

Q: Did you see any blood?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Where were those men shot?

A: I don't know -- it looked to me like they were both shot in the head.

Q: Did you look for any wounds anywhere else on them?

A: No sir.

Q: What was done then?

A: Mr. Mathis drug them off on the floor into the other room.

Q: They were in the side room?

A: Yes sir.

Q: When he pulled them off onto the floor what did he do with them?

A: He pulled the bed mattress off on them.

Q: Then what?

A: He bundled up some clothes there and told me and Mr. Owens to carry them back with us.

Q: Anything else?

A: Yes sir a feather mattress and some quilts.

Q: Did you carry anything else back -- a gun or anything of the sort?

A: Yes sir I carried the winchester.

Q: What did you do with George Masks gun?

A: It was down at Mr. Owens.

Q: You left it there after the shooting the first trip down there?

A: Yes sir.

Q: When he got the bed clothing pulled off on the men what did he then do?

A: He cut the straw mattress open with his knife and set it afire with the broom.

Q: Where did he get the fire?

A: Out of the fire place.

A: You mean he stuck the broom in the fire place and then stuck it to the straw mattress?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Then what?

A: Wasn't anything only me and Mr. Owens went on back to his house and Mr. Mathis got the horses and left.

Q: Where were the horses?

A: In the stables -- they had been put up and fed.

Q: Did you see Mathis when he left there with the horses?

A: Yes sir.

Q: How did he leave?

A: He went riding off -- riding one and leading the other.

Cross examination

Q: Do you know that this is not your case being tried?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Do you know that anything said here can not be used against you any further?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Is what you are telling the truth?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Have you told it all just as it occurred?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Haven't changed it any?

A: I suppose not.

Q: Or from the way you told it yesterday?

A: I think not.

Q: Have you made the same statement all the time?

A: I think I have

Q: You didn't make any different statement to Mrs. Standifer in the jail?

A: Yes sir I suppose I did.

Q: Don't you know you did?

A: Yes sir.

Q: What did you tell her?

A: She asked me if I done the shooting and I told her I did.

Q: What made you tell her that -- was that the truth?

A: No sir.

Q: What made you tell a story then?

A: Mr. Mathis told me to tell her.

Q: You will do anything he tells you to do will you?

A: No sir I wouldn't do anything he told me to do.

Q: Were you afraid of him?

A: No sir.

Q: You just did it for accommodation then?

A: He told me if I did that that would clear him and he would get out would take me out.

Q: You believed that did you?

A: I didn't know.

Q: You thought you would run the risk.

No answer

Q: Who are you trying to clear now? You can't clear yourself?

A: I aint trying to clear anyone.

Q: You are not working under anybody elses influence now?

A: No sir.

Q: Nobody has got you to tell this tale you are telling this evening?

No Answer

Q: How about that?

A: No sir I guess not.

Q: Are you sure of it?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Didn't you say yesterday in your own trial that Mr. Owens gave you some shells?

A: Yes sir I said that.

Q: Why did you say that then?

A: I don't know.

Q: Just for fun?

A: I don't know.

Q: Did you have anything different to make you tell the truth yesterday from what you have today?

A: No sir I guess not.

Q: Didn't you make a drawing showing the position of the house and the men in the bed yourself with the gun holding it?

A: Yes sir.

Q: At whose instance did you make that?

A: Mr. Mathis.

Q: Didn't you know when you drew that and made that statement and admitted the killing that it would affect your case?

A: No sir.

Q: You have no motive then for anything yesterday?

A: I don' understand.

Q: Have you any reason for saying what you do beside telling the truth this evening?

Has anybody told you they would get you out if you would tell this tale

A: No sir.

Q: Or keep you from being hung?

A: No sir.

Q: How many different statements have you made about this thing?

A: I don't know sir.

Q: No more than three or four have you?

A: I don't know whether I have made that many.

Q: You have admitted making three haven't you?

A: I don't know as I have.

Q: You admitted that you told Mrs. Standifer a different tale and you admitted that you told a different tale yesterday in your trial and the one you told this evening makes three?

A: Yes sir.

Q: What made you go after that gun?

A: Mr. Mathis told me to go after it.

Q: Was that the only reason?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Where did he tell you to go?

A: He told me to go to Mr. Owens and to George Masks'.

Q: What did Mr. Owens tell you when you got to his house?

A: He didn't tell me anything -- only told me to go ahead and wait until I come back and he would tell me more about it.

Q: More about what?

A: More about going back up there.

Q: When you come back what did he tell you?

A: He told me to tell Mr. Mathis he couldn't come -- he said his folks would alarm the county.

Q: Did he give you anything to take back to Mr. Mathis?

A: No sir.

Q: You sure of that?

A: Yes sir.

Q: Positive are you?

A: Yes sir.

Q: You were just as positive yesterday that he did give you something to take back weren't you?

A: No sir he didn't give me nothing.

Q: Were you and Will Mathis on good terms?

A: Yes sir I suppose so.

Q: What made that cut across the back of your coat?

A: Mr. Mathis cut it.

Q: What for?

A: Just because he wanted to I reckon.

Q: Had you done anything?

A: No sir.

Q: Did you ever call him a lie?

A: No sir.

Q: Had Mr. Mathis ever whipped you before that?

A: No sir.

Q: Nor given you a beating?

A: No sir.

Q: When you got back with the gun what did you do?

A: I stood around there and waited until he come out.

Q: What happened when you were standing around waiting?

A: Didn't anything only he come out and I called him and he snatched his pistol and shot.

Q: Did he shoot at you?

A: I don't know.

Q: What else was done?

A: He come out there and said he just done that to get those men to come out there so he could kill them out there.

Q: Is that all?

A: He told me to cut up some wood for him and he taken the gun and went in the house.

Q: What about his dog?

A: He turned the dog loose.

Q: What did you do then?

A: I never done nothing.

Q: Didn't you run?

A: No sir.

Q: Did the dog get hold of you?

A: No sir.

Q: Why not?

A: The dog knowed I was there and never paid no more attention to me.

Q: Didn't you go up there snapping the gun?

A: No sir.

Q: Hadn't you violated the law?

A: No sir.

Q: You didn't think then that those officers came after you?

A: No sir.

Q: Did Mr. Mathis tell you they came after you?

A: No sir.

Q: Did he tell you anything they said about you?

A: No sir -- he said they asked him who was I?

Q: What did he tell them?

A: He said he told them I was Therykill.

Q: Didn't he tell you they were looking for you?

A: No sir.

Q: What was your reason for taking part in this thing -- going after the gun and coming back and carrying off the clothes and all that?

A: Mr. Mathis told me to .

Q: You would do anything he told you at that time?

A: No sir I don't know that I would do anything.

Q: Did you refuse to do anything he told you?

A: I don't know.

Q: You don't remember anything that you refused to do?

A: I don't know sir.

Original Questions --

Q: You spoke of Mathis taking the pistols out of the bed what was the condition of those pistols?

A: Bloody.

Q: What else did they take?

A: They taken the watch.

Q: Whose watch?

A: I don't know -- he got it out of one of them vest pockets.

Q: What kind of watch?

A: Kinder gold looking watch.

Q: Anything else?

A: Yes sir some money and some cartridges.

Q: What else?

A: That is all.

Q: Do you know whether Hugh Montgomery had on a ring or not?

A: Nothing only I heard Mathis say something about a ring.

Q: Do you know what became of it?

A: No sir.

Q: Did you hear Mathis say anything about what he wanted done with the watch?

A: No sir.

Q: What did he do with it when he took it out of the vest pocket?

A: I don't know. 

Q: Who do you say now did the shooting?

A: I told you while ago Mr. Mathis and Jackson.

Q: Where were you?

A: There in the room.

Q: What did you have in your hands?

A: The lamp, and some cobs in the other hand.

Q: Which one of the three statements you have made is the truth? The one you told Mrs. Standifer or the one you told yesterday or the one you tell today?

A: I told the same one yesterday I am telling today?

Q: Exactly?

A: I think I have.

Q: When you were on the witness stand in the Coroners inquest did you make the same statement there you make here?

A: I don't know.

Q: You don't remember what you said there do you?

A: No sir not all I said.

Q: Yet you remember these things just as they occurred?

A: Yes sir.

Q: How many shots were fired with that shot gun?

A: I don't know -- only one I reckon.

Q: How many with the rifle?

A: Only one I reckon.

Q: How many with the pistol?

A: When Mr. Mathis shot at me?

Q: No in the house?

A: There wasn't any with the pistol in the house that I know of.